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Celtic and Rangers to join the Premier League?
All the way back in 2001 Celtic’s majority shareholder Dermot Desmond predicted that Glasgow’s Old Firm would eventually join the English Premiership within four or five years, claiming “the ball is already rolling”. Today it doesn’t seem any more likely to happen than it did back then.
It is understandable why Celtic and Rangers, Scottish champions for the past 10 years, sharing the spoils every year since the Scottish Premier League was formed in 1998, want out. It is clearly not for more domestic success nor for an easier route into Europe. Both teams have occupied first and second spot every year with the exception of the 2005/06 season when Hearts finished second behind Celtic.
No, the reason is, very simply put, purely a financial one. Just as the English Premier League and SPL were formed on furthering club’s financial benefits, so is the proposal for these two Scottish teams to jump south over the border and start competing against the likes of Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea.
There exists a enormous gulf between the TV revenue within the Premier League and the SPL and despite the guaranteed Champions League places Celtic and Rangers enjoy year in year out, which as from this season onwards the Scottish champions will be rewarded with an automatic entry to the group stages, it appears they would be willing to sacrifice this and its financial benefits for a shot at the Premier League.
The recent proposals by Bolton chairman Phil Gartside, one of the longest serving Premier League chairmans and an influential member of the FA board, has re-ignited this hugely controversial issue. His proposal of a two-tier Premier League both comprising of 18 teams with two gaining relegation/promotion between them, has sent alarm bells ringing up down the country. As far as he is concerned however, it would not only reduce the gap between the ‘Big Four’ and the rest of the pack, but the top division and the rest of the football league. Debatable.
The whole plans seems unlikely to ever come into fruition given the fierce opposition there is likely to be on such a drastic move. Scottish fans are likely to be split over the issue where as English Premiership clubs at the bottom would have an even bigger task of trying to stay in the top flight and avoid relegation, whilst those vying for a crack at a European competition would begrudge the inevitable increased competition for those precious spots.
The logistics of where to place Celtic and Rangers in the English league pyramid without re-inventing it completely just to accommodate them seems outlandish. Furthermore, can you imagine two thousand Glaswegians traveling 410 miles every few weeks to watch their team play West Ham away or worse still 450 miles to Portsmouth? The whole thing just seems unfeasible.
Having said this, the issue is still making the headlines even today but with no real progress being made and just seems to fade away until the following season. A Celtic source has been quoted saying “We’re always interested in proposals that could enlarge our revenue base and increase our competitiveness, but is there anything new in these plans?”. Furthermore UEFA has, itself, shown no adversity, “We wouldn’t take a position on such a proposal,” the UEFA director of communications, William Gaillard, told BBC Scotland.
Still, whatever happens in the future nothing can take away the pure magic of one of the world’s greatest derbies, next one – May 9 at the Ibrox could prove crucial for this years SPL.
As far as this blogger is concerned the English Premier League should remain English. Can you imagine Porto, Sporting and Benfica joining La Liga?
Remain english ? So cardiff and swansea are not allowed into the english prem either or has the border moved.
I can’t see how it would be possible without restructuring the whole league or having a season with 2 extra teams and two extra relegation spots.
Who is going to pay commpensation for the teams in the championship denied a place in the premiership (or the extra prem teams relegated). Just looking at the mess in the current Tevez/WHU/Sheffield United case I think the financial/legal ramifications would make it a complete non-starter.
Frank- “Remain english ? So cardiff and swansea are not allowed into the english prem either or has the border moved.”
Are you Welsh? Believe it or not some people don’t think Swansea or Cardiff should be allowed to play in the English league… but its okay- they’ll never make it into the prem- they’re just not good enough.
Waow – what an insightful read that wasn’t. Really though, what a pointless article which only serves to highlight the failings of the blogger. First the distances travelled point is utterly redundant given the numbers of Celtic fans living in England(I myself live in Leeds which has,at last count, 7 designated Celtic bars with afilliated supporter’s clubs) and the numbers of fans to gladly travel overseas to follow the club in Europe and on tour. Then there is the rather startling(borderline xenophobic) comment about keeping the EPL English, totally ignoring the fact that 1) the EPL and it’s clubs are almost entirely foreign owned and built of foreign investment. and 2) the vast majority of the players plying their trade in the EPL, and therefore making the EL the product that it is, are non-English. It really is quite laughable the amount of latent “little englander” attitude that’s displayed when issues like this come up, and by people who really should know better.
Why is 2000 fans travelling not feasible? They would love the opportunity, what a ridiculous statement, obviously a little bit out of touch with the supporters.
I agree with the blogger.
It’s called the ‘English Premier League’ for a reason. Celtic and Rangers should remain in the ‘SPL’. Even should Celtic and Rangers compete in Englands top flight league, I feel they would struggle, and ultimately be a mid to lower table team.
Also what about the glamorous ties of ‘The Battle of Britian’ in the Champions League? There would be battles of britain every week, and it would lose the spark that is always there when an English team meets a Scottish team in the Champions League.
As for the distance. Surely Celtic and Rangers main fanbase is in Glasgow and the regions of Scotland itself. So the blogger holds a valid point when discussing the distance that needs to be travelled? I’m sure the fans would have no problem travelling to watch their beloved teams play yet it would still be costly travelling to different parts of England every other week?
NO No No to Any scottish club joing the English Premier league.
Wev’e got enough of them in Parliament.
English are English
Good point about Cardiff and swansea from Frank .Realistically having watched Champions League for ten plus seasons at OT simply the two weakest sides to show up have been the two Glaswegian sides .If they were admitted to the Premier league they would have to be admitted to the Championship before long .Aside from that we abandoned the Home international Championship competition because of unacceptable fan conduct .Last season’s disgraceful scenes in Manchester suggest that it would be very ill advised to accept the Old Firm south of the border on a bi weekly basis .Hadrian was no fool .
This is one of the most narrow minded, negative, ignorant rants I have ever read on the topic. AND before you suggest that I am just another upset Celtic fan you are wrong.
Let me make this very simple and straight forward. The number one reason above all why Celtic and Ranger have not been allowed to join the EPL is FEAR.
No English premiership team regards the old firm as a force to watch out TODAY. All the concern is about TOMORROW. Lets take Celtic for example.
They have the largest “away” support in europe. They max out their 60,000 + seater stadium every game. Celtic sells more soccer jerseys in a year Chelsea, Liverpool, and arsenal combined. Scotland as a nation have the highest pay per view count per capita in Europe. They are for want of a better word “die-hard”.
Opening the old firm in to the EPL would be like opening financial flood gates that would change the EPL forever. From a marketing perspective and world attention Celtic and Rangers would generate 100′s of millions with the transition. Both teams can be globally marketed much easier and with much more revenue generation for both clubs. The irish, catholic, connection runs deep as does the scottish/english protestant ties whether or not you want to acknowledge it or not it is still ever so present.
Their satellite television money would catapult them in to real financial contenders. In my opinion with a much bigger fiscal potential than even the mighty Manchester United.
Jerome Butcher Said:
“The logistics of where to place Celtic and Rangers in the English league pyramid without re-inventing it completely just to accommodate them seems outlandish. Furthermore, can you imagine two thousand Glaswegians traveling 410 miles every few weeks to watch their team play West Ham away or worse still 450 miles to Portsmouth? The whole thing just seems unfeasible.”
Open your mind Jerome. Look at the states, or canada or anywhere for that matter. Ever heard of a plane. If the americans can do it so can you. 450 miles, lol hahah. Do you no how small your silly little island is? This is the planet earth man!
Oh and one other comment Jerome! When you said
“As far as this blogger is concerned the English Premier League should remain English. Can you imagine Porto, Sporting and Benfica joining La Liga”
Thats Portuguese teams going to a completely different country, Spain! Scotland and England are together in all ways that matter. It is called the United Kingdom or Britain. Most regard this as one country. Your comparison is just stupid. Write about what you know… Stick to golf or something.
R
Napluc…
Where are the facts that prove Celtic and Rangers sell more shirts then Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal combined. I’ve searched for the figures on the internet, can’t find them. As far as I’m concerned your talking utter nonsense. Your argument is that three of the biggest clubs in England can’t sell more then the two biggest in Scotland. It’s a crazy suggestion.
Celtic and Rangers can stay in their ruddy SPL, I don’t want them in the EPL. Why not abolish the league cup in both countries and create a British cup were teams from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland could enter? Whoever regards England and Scotland as being the same country is ignorant and I fear many of these believer may struggle to find their way to the English stadium week in week out, if they can’t even work out England and Scotland are two completely separate countries.
The blogger may have been slightly shortsighted in some of his views regarding travel but he makes some valid points.
At the end of the day we all have our own opinions on the matter, but essentially I don’t want to see the ‘Old Firm’ week in week out in the EPL.
Napluc- what a load of rubbish.
1. celtic bigger fiscal potential than united? are you out of your mind?
2. rangers’ ibrox stadium seats 51.082
3. silly little island? stick to the content of the article mate. no need for gibberish like that.
ps i know the blogger- he doesn’t know diddly squat about golf.
With all due respect to the last two gentlemen’s comments:
First off. I am english, I’m a diehard fan of one of the biggest clubs in the EPL.
I went to a rangers celtic old firm game last year at parkhead (celtics ground) there was approx 60,000+ there. I have never experienced anything like this is my life. I have been to an AC Inter clash. I have done all the big EPL games. International games, the final of this and the final of that. I swear to you; you have absolutely no idea what it’s like until you go.
We think we are passionate. They take things a few steps more. The songs they sing, the religious foundations to it all…
I can understand you may have a challenge imagining Celtic and Rangers starting in the 3rd division of the English league but it would be such a win win situation. The two giants would only generate more revenue for the rest of the English divisions.
As for the comment about Scotland and England being very different. I must disagree. I used to feel that way. Traveling the planet for the last 20 years has made me change my mind.
As for the silly little island comment. I meant no disrespect but it is just a silly little island. Look at the size of us! Look at the rest of the world. We can’t have one super league for our little island?
Football in scotland is dead as dog sh*t because theres no possibility of expansion. rangers and celtic and the scottish football league is stuck. If the old firm left it would give the rest of the league a chance to shine.
These are only my opinions… Go easy.
celtic/rangers in the Prem? are you arshavin a laugh?
Even if Celtic & Rangers were placed in the bottom division of the English League, they could rise to the top pretty quickly if their caliber of play earns then that right.
As for travelling, one only has to look at the North American National Hockey League, where teams are shuttling accross North America from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean and Miami and Texas, USA to Montreal & Toronto, Canada. If teams and can travel thousands of miles between two countries and play 5 matches a week and fill their stands with fans, why would it be a problem for clubs or fans to travel only a few hundreds miles between England and Scotland every few weeks.
By the way, Both Celtic & Rangers Reserve clubs would be competitive in the SPL. Where there’s a will, there’s a way
I am English, and an Arsenal fan, and I think that Rangers and Celtic SHOULD play in the Premier League, because I cannot stand the fact that they always win the Scottish Premier League. If Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff can play in the English leagues, the why not Rangers and Celtic?! The only problem would be their long trips to play the likes of Portsmouth.
A British premier League would be great, id support a complete restructuring but failing that, just drop the “English” from the Premier League, and let Celtic and Rangers in somehow.
The smaller Welsh / Scottish leagues are good for local sports, but Celtic and Rangers are great clubs and deserve the international draw the Premier League in England gets.
It would be great if this happened, sadly i think politics will get in the way. It sounds pretty funny that a with a Scottish government seeking to end the United Kingdom, the two main clubs would join a British premier league.
agree with the guy saying that there is celtic and rangers fans everywhere, and 450miles, celtic travel to places like aberdeen and the 150,000 celtic fans that travelled to the eufa cup final although this was a one off, i think history has shown that both celtic and rangers have massive following that would go anywhere. Although i agreee that it would be very difficult to fit celtic and rangers into the enlgish premiership i think the advantages they would bring would far outweigh the disadvantages.
i just had to make a comment to that guy up there who said that for the past 10 years celtic and rangers are the weakest teams in the champions league, mate get a grip celtic have i think the 3rd best home record in the entire history of the champions league and rangers have qualified three out of four into the second phase so where that statement comes from i can only assume you just dont have a clue what your on about.
You Having A Lauth , Celtic And Rangers Would Change The Premiership. The Atmosphere At A Old Firm Game Is Unreal Seriously ,
Give Them A Chance For F**ck Sake
And For The Guy Who Said Celtic&Rangers Have Been Sh*t For 10 Years In The Champions League
Celtic The 3rd Best Home Record.
First To Win The European Cup In BRITAIN !! .
So Get Your Fu**kin Facts Right.
Kill The Fu*kin Spl , Kill The Fuk*in Spl , Kill The Fu**kin Spl , Full Of Dirty Bastar*ds
Callum. You’re a idiot. celtic and Rangers are overrated
Celtic got stuffed by Arsenal, Rangers stuffed by a Romanian pub team.
Its 1707 all over again, Scotland, (then independent) was a bankrupt country with a failed colony in North America whilst England was thriving. The fact is we did not need you then but we opened the door to you joining us, (and had to put up with your “winging” ever since).
This time we have the “big two” knocking on our door, once again its because there own set-up is failing.
The difference this time is it will not happen. Do us all a favor and vote SNP and concentrate on putting your own league in order.
As for Welsh clubs being in our league it is basically down to the founding of teams in Wales and there willingness/acceptance to play in the English leagues that were forming at the time, they have been with us since the beginning.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cardiff Swansea et al, joined the English system in the beginning the 1900′s through the Southern Football League. which is semi-professional and amateur clubs from the South West, South Central and Midlands of England and ((South Wales)) No other such cross border league system exists which includes Scotland, probably because every time the English asked you to play football with them you were to proud and told them to F off. From that already established cross border league they got themselves promoted up.
Therefore any argument you present using (Cardiff/Swansea) DOES NOT go on to follow your simply allowed to walk into the Premiership, Get in line with all the other leagues and teams working to get into queue the premiership at start at the bottom then your more than welcome. However I think I speak for most when we say your over hyped passion is based on religious hate and not truly great football. You would be lucky to get promotion from the championship
Celtic Football Club have fans all over the world , people travel weekly from southern Ireland to matches, so that too far to travel thing makes no sence. As for not being able to compete in the premiership, absolute rubbish. Have you forgotten the teams that have beaten Liverpool , Newcastle and Man utd in european competitions. That was when they were, and as they are now been, strangled by the low pay of the SPL.With theyre 60000 every home game , season ticket sales, shirt sales and premiership money , they would without doubt become one of, if not the biggest soccer teams in the world. Have you any idea how many Celtic Supporterts clubs there are world wide? Investigate that and you’ll know im right
dont forget about the gers hammering the english champs in teh battle of britian ibrox and elland rd first team in britain to reach the champs league semi final and were cheated by mersailles who then the eurpean cup was gifted to ac milan, also ibrox has had the bigger attendance this season and have for the last 3 years ibrox holds 51,000 but has the biggest club attendance in history 118,000 against celtic
the best team in england for years has been run by a scot, so it’s not like we dont know what we’re doing, the only difference is there will be a few more scots in the team that pick up yer ELP trophy lmao,,, I SALUTE YOU SIR ALEX FERGUSON
We all argue about the reasons why rangers and celtic should/shouldn’t join the EPL, the truth is it will happen even if they have to start at the bottom, both rangers and celtic will eventually reach the EPL and as for the fans oh you better belive they will travell week in week out, filling up every seat available, the rangers and celtic fans are the most loyal across the globe, and yes we have a history both religeous and our love of football but you know what its a love hate relationship, oh an we both have another passion??? we hate almost just the same and thats the english but you kno thats a love hate relationship too.
there is no real reason rangers and celtic cant or shouldn’t join the EPL
the only reason the english dont want this is that they dont want a scottish club to pick up the EPL trophy
I actually think that Celtic and Rangers should join the premier league, but the EPL should include two welsh teams as well i.e Swansea and Cardiff this would make the league more competitive between the countries and have more rivalry between them. they should make the league into a 24 team league
But to stop the whole question of relegation the EPL should do something similar to Super League (rugby) and not have the relegation issue for a few years and let the premier league stay as the same 24 teams for a few years to let the teams get comfortable and used to the top flight style of play. then after say 2 years bring relegation back but now relegate the bottom 4 teams and promote 4 teams this would make the whole relegation battle more exciting because more teams would be battling it out to survive a further year in the premier league, also with 4 teams leaving and 4 teams joining the league every year, it would give more rotation to the league and more teams would have the chance to have a crack at the EPL’s top flight
Celtic and the Orc’s will be in the Premiership for the start of season 2014-2015
To everyone saying Celtic and Rangers would compete for the Premier league trohpy. You only have to look at the 3-1 drumming this summer by Manchester Uniteds YOUNGSTERS with a few exceptions and again 3-2 to a very youthful Arsenal side. At very best Celtic could challenge for about 8th at most. In the competitive nature and the intensity at which the EPL is played at they would not be able to cope week in week out. And to think they would come off better than the likes of CURRENT European Giants like United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and soon to be Manchester City across a whole season is a JOKE. Stop talking about your HISTORY, yes maybe you were good in the past. But the truth is you wouldn’t even make Europa League if you played in the Premiership. If any of the top four were amitted into the SPL they would not drop a point. Until both Glasgow teams can win every game by at least 6 or 7 goals I don’t think you have a chance…Cause the SPL standard is truly appalling.
First of all David, we might end up mid table in the first few seasons but with the extra tv money coming in, Celtic and Rangers would soon be contending for a top spot. Obviously with the current Celtic and Rangers teams, we would no doubt get beaten by the big four, but that would only be for a couple of seasons until we have signed better quality of players. And not forgetting the probability that as soon as Rangers and Celtic were to enter the EPL, they would no doubt be taken over by Russian Oil Tycoons, American Bankers or Saudi Prince’s as a hobby (just like you say “Soon to be Man City”) which would then make us contenders from the second season onwards. As for the distance, it wouldn’t be a problem. Newcastle for instance would have to travel further to play Chelsea, than they would to play Rangers or Celtic. And for Portsmouth to travel to Glasgow, well there are always planes. Rangers and Celtic would make the EPL a far better product, no doubt about it. I think most people who say no to the old firm joining are either scared about what tomorrow would bring for their club (lower league position, can’t handle the old firm) or they are Racist towards the Scots and don’t want us joining for that reason which is pretty pathetic. Also David, if any of the top 4 were admitted into the SPL they would have to sell most of their players because the money is terrible. So you are wrong, they would drop a lot of points and with the debt of Man U (700m+), Liverpool (350m+) and Arsenal (200m+) you wouldn’t even have a cleaning lady to wash the kits.
Callum saying get your facts right, to be fair he did say the LAST 10 YEARS, so to say they were the first british team to win is a pointless argument, and the fan thing doesnt make them a good team in the champions league,
let them join but they should join from the bottom, if they dnt like it, stay in there shitty leagues, and its funny, the argument about the fans and all that. celtic seem to be struggling to get the fans in now, and cnt even compete in the europa so please dont say they would be fighting for the top. Defo dnt need the celtic fans in the premier league, ive experienced them and they were just scum. much like millwall.
listen ‘hecomesfromserbia’ who the fuck do you think you are? am scottish, live in scotland but i support cardiff and they could beat rangers and celtic any day of the week, never get into the prem whit a pathetic thing to say? who the fuck says prem ya wee tosser? wait till next may and either us or swansea will be in that topflight thats a stick on <3 bluebirds bluebirds!
